The Marvel Super Heroes Podcast

The Marvel Super Heroes Podcast Episode 032

Marvel Universe LIVE!

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Note: We like our language NSFW salty, and there be spoilers here…

Face Front, True Believer! This week, we’re not going to lie, we lazily recorded directly into a shabby built-in laptop mic at the kitchen table our Marvel flavored bull session! That, and Frank didn’t feel like editing any more of his lengthy over-the-internet mailbag convo with Mac, so that gets dumped here too! It’s raw sushi-stylee as you may like it, or not, whatever. They can’t all be winners, folks!

  • 00:35 Mister Fixit tells us about his experience at the Feld Entertainment Marvel Universe LIVE! stage show currently touring North America.
  • 11:18 Iron Man toys, Marvel’s Ant-Man teaser trailer, and slagging on Iron Man 3.
  • 16:57 Spider-Man enters the Marvel Cinematic Universe, without Vaseline. Fixit on Fant4stic. “Teasers” don’t tickle. S’more Avengers: Age of Ultron. Birdman remorse. Ma Fixit liked First Class and Days of Future Past. Secret Wars Battleworlds.
  • 37:51 Mighty Marvel Mail Bag reading of a letter from Kyle Benning, to which we respond at length regarding Fant4stic and Black Panther.
  • 58:41 More mail replies, this time to Martin Gray on ÜberBatman vs. Black Panther
  • 1:07:24 guanoman shows love to #MarvelSHP on Facebook, then Simon Donovan, Siskoid, and finally Eternal Rage on Doctor Zero.

As you can tell, we love a fierce conversation and a pretty picture, so why don’t you socialize with us, either by leaving a comment on this page or…

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6 thoughts on “The Marvel Super Heroes Podcast Episode 032”

  1. Hey there guys, awesome work by Fix it in the first half of episode 32. Mac awesome work in the second half. High praise for Franks knowledge of the comic universe, and that includes his knowledge of anything beyond the fourth wall which is very impressive. That being said when it comes to comics Frank and Fix it are the ones I take at their word the most because they seem to have a better working knowledge. As for Movies I have to go with Mac simply because he is so far removed from the current comic world that he is more reasonable with his thoughts on the super hero movie genre. Franks extensive knowledge of the comic book universe actually makes him way to hard on the movies. I can understand being hard on movies but Frank takes it to another level entirely. Nothing worse than hearing from someone “in the know” of the comic universe telling a casual fan who just enjoys and likely only knows the Marvel Movie Universe that the movie they just watched and enjoyed is dog shit because well insert rant here. The reason episodes like the Black Panther and the Patsy Walker episodes are so good in my opinion is that Mac and/or Fix It take a genuine interest in the topic. This makes for good information and good conversation between the longtime friends. There doesn’t need to be heated debates for the shows to be good, just good conversation. When Mac and/or Fix it don’t seem interested in the subject matter I think the episodes suffer. As good as Franks knowledge is, he still needs someone to play off of to make it click.

    I don’t think that it matters that the casual superhero movie fan doesn’t have a preexisting knowledge of (for this example) the Fantastic Four. If the casual fan decides to see Fantastic Four no matter how it’s spelled they will either go in blind (which seems even fan boys are trying to do now), call a friend that knows some history on the characters, or just do what a lot of people do, go and search the World Wide Web. So what that those that know – know and those that don’t know don’t. I think its starting to sound like not knowing might be better anyway.

    Oh yeah one last thing, yeah mac is probably the villain but only because he is very dismissive of anything that he doesn’t have knowledge of. Would these gems by Mac make for good shirts? “Don’t know, don’t care.”, and “I’m right and you’re wrong.”

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  2. 35 minutes to go, but before I forget what I wanted to say…

    Theater injuries: I feel for the guy. Something very much like that happened to me Senior year when I jumped off the stage and broke four toes while doing – Molière (because Frenchie over here). It wasn’t superheroes, but it did have a ghost in it. The irony of it is that Molière always put a character with a limp in his plays because he had an actor with a limp. Guess what character I was playing.

    Spider-Man: So long as we don’t get another “origin of Spider-Man” movie, that’s fine. Uncle Ben’s suffered enough. The fact he appears in Civil War BEFORE the Spider-Man film means he can be established etc. Maybe they can even blow him up in Civil War so Miles Morales can take over in the main film. I’m not saying I believe it, but I’d like it.

    Fantastic Four: Mac has never talked more sense! In my own circles (friends in the flesh and on social media), the teaser was met with much more positive reactions, essentially moving everyone from “no interest” to “oh, that looks pretty good actually”. Obviously Fox is going to keep its universe darker, à la X-Men (and I’m forcing myself not to rant about who Days of Future Days is way over-rated, I disliked it very much). Frank’s argument that someone who knows ZERO about the FF could not look at this teaser and say “that’s the FF” is complete nonsense; since the the layman in the story doesn’t know anything about the FF, even a clear shot of the Thing or the Human Torch would not tell him it’s the FF, because he has absolutely no frame of reference. “A rock monster and a guy on fire? I don’t get it.” If you do know, and it’s written right on top of the video that this is the Fantastic Four teaser, well, you DO know it’s the FF, and a quick Google will fill in the blanks. (And Frank, I’m sure the first FF “did well” but it was still a terrible terrible film, if only for the amount of brazen product placement; they really did need to state “this is most definitely NOT that version of the FF.)

    Here’s what I get from the teaser: Instead of space they’ll go to the Negative Zone – cue fights in oxygenated space which is cool – and possibly fight Annihilus. Dr. Doom is part of the group that gets zapped, but he doesn’t get powers, just a scarred face, so he hates the others. A good plan for the franchise would be to make Annihilus the villain in this one, with Doom betraying the team (rise of Doom, if you will). FF2, time to fight Doom per se. FF3, time to retell the Galactus story PROPERLY, with Doom trying to steal the power cosmic and succeeding. That’s what I’d do with it anyway.

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  3. #becauseFrench

    Siskoid, for real, I listened to the podcast twice yesterday….I still have no clue what point Frank was trying to make on FF. I know I came off a little rude in the recording…but I just didn’t get his point.

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  4. More on the Fantastic Four:

    1) First, I think I posted my comment regarding the Fantastic Four movie before the Teaser hit. That said, nothing in the trailer said “This is a Fantastic Four movie” to me. Most of the positive feedback I’ve seen regarding the Trailer are from people with a passing interest of the Fantastic Four. Yeah they know who they are and may have followed their book occassionally, but they really aren’t all that invested in Fantastic Four and haven’t followed them for decades. I have, they are my single favorite Superhero Team, so I guess I just want to see them get done right, and nothing released regarding this movie has pointed to any version of the Fantastic Four that has ever shown up in the 616 Marvel Universe. Do I expect a direct adaption, no, but I would hope they would pay some very heavy respects to the source material of the property that launched Marvel Comics into the Silver Age.

    2) Don’t confuse a good or entertaining movie as being the same as a good “property” movie. This movie could look great and be entertaining as hell, but if it doesn’t capture any of the elements of what makes the Fantastic Four who they are, then it really isn’t a good Fantastic Four movie. New Trek and Man of Steel are other examples (at least in my opinion) of that. Those movies tend to not sit well with many long-time fans of those characters. Trek while fast paced and entertaining does not capture the Star Trek feel or military protocol that has been present in all past iterations. That means that while they may be entertaining or deemed “good” movies, they are not good Star Trek movies, because they failed (according to many) in its goal to be a Star Trek movie. I enjoy the action of New Trek, they are movies I would consider good as their own thing, but I would not call them good Star Trek movies. Does that make sense? The same can be said about Man of Steel, while it seems like there is a fair split between fans of the movie and its detractors (I myself see no redeeming qualities of that film), many think that while it can be entertaining and pretty to look at it, but it fails in its goal to be a movie about Superman. To many it is a movie about Batman with Super Powers, which you may enjoy, but it still fails the task it set out to accomplish. So essentially, this movie could be a great entertaining flick with loads of drama and great special effects, but if it doesn’t even get close to capturing the Fantastic Four in more than name alone, it will be a failure in the eyes of loyal long time FF fans. If you don’t want to make a movie about the FF, call it something else. To tie this in to some of your past discussion, this would essentially be what you guys argued about with regards to an Aquaman movie. I think the general consensus among you 3 on the show is that it could be fun to watch, but you are all wary that it will be like watching a Namor movie under the banner of Aquaman. While it may be awesome to watch, and be a great Namor movie, it would fail in its goal to be a movie about Aquaman.

    3) I think where most concepts trying to “modernize” the Fantastic Four fall flat is they ignore the era that spawned them. To me the Fantastic Four are the perfect examples of the sci-fi, space race age of the late 50’s through 1960’s. That is the cultural tone that birthed the Fantastic Four, and you can’t have the Fantastic Four without it. Just as Captain America needs World War II as his origin, the Fantastic Four need the 1960’s Sci-Fi Space Race era as theirs. The Cap movie worked so well embracing that period-piece feel, so why not with the Fantastic Four? Simple solution, make the movie a period piece and set the Fantastic Four’s origins in that time period. It’s the early 1960’s, Reed Richards, scientific prodigy comes up with his own space plane and he and the cast of the FF launch into space to explore some cosmic anomaly. Boom they get doused in Cosmic Radiation and get their powers. You embrace the era to get them their origin. Then next step, embrace more of the science fiction and experimental science that the team is known for, and have them transported to the modern day. You can have it be the space incident itself, in addition to the Cosmic Rays, they go through a wormhole and find themselves in the 21st Century. Or have them land back in the 1960’s, do their Fantastic Four thing for a bit, have one of Reed’s Experiments go horribly wrong, and they find themselves in the future (our present day). So then you’d have a movie with 1960’s Space Race, Time Travel, and Reed’s advanced experiments. That’s how you capture the tone of the Fantastic Four.

    Based on Frank’s comments, it sounds like he and I are on the same wavelength here and he gets where I’m coming from.

    Mac, since I gave you such a hard time last time, I do have to give you props on some of your comments from the past few episodes. All of my comments are said in jest and good humor. Mac’s role is definitely a constant funny part of the show. I could listen to talk about Iron Man comics all day, you and I are definitely in agreement and on the same wavelength when it comes to Iron Man. Good stuff.

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  5. Just listening to this after a week of vacation.

    A couple of points.

    1) The Fantastic Four teaser. I think my concern about the teaser is that it felt a bit like the Superman movie history. When Superman Returns, a touchy-feely movie, seemed to fail, I think Warner decided to go the complete opposite direction. And so we get Man of Steel. The truth is somewhere between those extremes is the right Superman move.

    After the goofy, cartoony, simple prior Fantastic Four movies, I wonder if the movie makers decided again to go in the complete opposite direction. And so this trailer seemed too serious, too dark, too real. Somewhere in the middle is the right FF movie.

    Like Frank, if I didn’t know it was an FF movie, I would have thought the preview was for a Prometheus sort of film.

    2) Uber Batman and his costume. I don’t know if the earliest Black Panther would have anything to do with the uber-Batman. All that has to be born from Miller’s Dark Knight. That fight scene in DKR has been dissected here. Like Frank, I think Superman could have ended it in seconds but was holding back. Instead, most everyone talks about how Batman now could defeat everyone. I don’t buy it either. I miss the world’s greatest detective. Not this omnipotent paranoid guy in a bat suit.

    As for big ears, infinite cape in blue, I’ll bring up 2 people. One, Marshall Rogers in his short run on Batman had a very big cape. ( http://longboxgraveyard.com/2012/06/06/51-escape-from-the-longbox-shortbox/ )

    And Todd McFarlane in the Year 2 also had a big cape. I know, shocker. ( http://followpics.me/todd-mcfarlanes-batman/ )

    Thanks again for a great show.

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  6. Hello gentlemen

    First, thanks for reading my FB post about the podcast, and once again, apologies for seemingly neglecting the other hosts in favour of Frank. What can I say? Fans of the Martian Manhunter are a small and endangered group. We have to stick up for each other.

    That said, on this episode, I have to take Mac’s side on the FF discussion. I’m so tired of the oft-repeated trope that ‘real’ fans of FF all hate this movie with a passion. It’s a classic example of the ‘No True Scotsman’ logical fallacy. I’m a big fan of FF and have been reading their comics for decades, and I’m looking forward to this film. True, it’s not based on any of my favourite eras of FF, but it is clearly heavily based on Ultimate FF – putting the lie to the other oft-repeated myth, that it has no relation to the comics. What people really mean is ‘It’s not based on my favourite FF comics’. And that’s fine by me. I think we forget to what extent even the best Marvel movies are a) heavily influenced by the Ultimate universe, and b) adapted for a different medium. The MCU and X-Men movies are all pretty far from what I consider the classic incarnations of their respective properties, but that doesn’t diminish them one bit.

    At the core of FF are a sense of family and a sense of wild sci-fi adventure. We’ve not seen any of the interpersonal dynamics in the teaser, so there’s no basis at all on which to judge that yet. However, Trank is very character-oriented, as his work on Chronicle shows, so I’m quietly confident that he’ll nail that. As for adventure, the teaser clearly shows some kind of portal between worlds, which I’m guessing is the Negative Zone, so it’s clearly not going to be as ‘grounded’ as the detractors would have us believe.

    Also, there is an implication that FF is just goofy, technicolor comic-book fun, so the films should reflect this. I feel this diminishes the FF. It’s not as if the classic comics were never serious or dark in tone. One of the most universally celebrated runs of FF is John Byrne’s, which was full of serious storylines and grim themes. And that’s the key – as long as the family/character dynamics are in place, the tone of the adventure doesn’t really matter. In fact, it can work well as a point of contrast – e.g. Johnny and Ben affectionately needling each other in the face of global extinction…

    Lastly, as Mac quite rightly asserts, the last two FF movies were more superficially faithful to the classic comics, but not that great or that successful… and it’s entirely understandable, desirable even, that a new, contrasting approach would be taken. I’m keen to see how it works out. If this film tanks, it’s possible a further reboot might swing further the other way, and we’ll get a full-on retro 1960s-set Kirby-tastic flick full of giant Mole Man monsters, which I would LOVE, but would probably be vastly expensive and only of niche interest.

    Anyway, I’m now breaking my vow to myself that I wouldn’t post anything else about the new FF movie until I’ve seen it, because – like everyone else – I don’t know yet how it’s going to turn out. I shall wait and see.

    Kind regards

    gmx

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