The Marvel Super Heroes Podcast Episode 054

Marvel’s Captain America: Civil War (2016)

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Face Front, True Believers! The third Avengers Captain America movie is here! So of course we compare it to all the other major Marvel films and Batman v Superman: Dawn of Just-Ass plus a lot of gabbing about T’Challa of Wakanda and Peter Parker! As a change of pace, Frank talks like a sexist pig in between his usual rambling about girl power B.S. and briefly loses his $#!+ over Deepwater Horizon! The ghosts of Agent Peggy Carter and The Starks haunt the Marvel Universe in one of the best entries in the MCU! Excelsior!
As you can tell, we love a fierce conversation, so why don’t you socialize with us, either by leaving a comment on this page or…

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9 thoughts on “The Marvel Super Heroes Podcast Episode 054

  1. Lot to go through with this episode so I’ll probably have multiple comments.

    First point… as to Zemo. I don’t think they need to ever bring him back again; I’m fine with him going into the box and staying there. However, if they do decide to revisit him, his objective doesn’t have to change: kill the Avengers. But he’ll need help next time, so he finds Abomination (who is also still alive as of THE INCREDIBLE HULK) and how you’ve got half of a Masters of Evil going. Get Justin Hammer to build a new Crimson Dynamo, maybe get Enchantress from somewhere, and introduce Wonder Man. Zemo might be only human, but shit, so was Nick Fury. Make Zemo the Anti-Fury recruiting villains for his Anti-Avengers team.

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  2. Aunt May = AMILF. The best part about casting still-sexyass Marisa Tomei is Marvel/Sony can do the “Aunt May is gonna marry Doc Ock” story from the comics and it won’t be totally ridiculous (just regular ridiculous).

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  3. Rob Kelly, Chris Franklin and I reviewed the movie, too, for Rob’s Film and Water Podcast, so I mentioned a lot of my thoughts there.
    http://fireandwaterpodcast.com/podcast/film-water-42-captain-america-civil-war/

    One of my biggest concerns going into this movie was Black Panther. I know Frank and I were on the same page about this–when Marvel announced that Sony and Disney would share Spider-Man and that the webslinger would debut in CIVIL WAR, we were bummed because we assumed he would steal Black Panther’s thunder and a good chunk of his screen time. That turned out to not be the case. In fact, the writers confirmed that they wrote very early drafts of the story with Spider-Man in it, and it was only when they thought the deal with Sony would fall through that they decided to beef up Black Panther’s role at all. And nobody steals anything from T’Challa in this flick; quite the opposite, he’s a constant scene stealer. Not only does he have badass action scenes, an impressive entrance, both in- and out-of-costume, but he also carries the emotional weight of the story for the first two thirds when everyone else is fighting over the language of an international charter. T’Challa makes this story personal until it becomes personal for Tony and Steve, at which point T’Challa is able to distance himself from his emotional turmoil and actually get the fucking job done by thwarting the villain.

    I loved Black Panther’s fighting style. I loved his movement. I loved the fact that he had a jet that followed Iron Man to Siberia without being spotted. I loved his accent, and Chadwick Boseman played T’Challa as a cool-ass cat when he first speaks to Black Widow. That’s a pairing I want to see more of. And holy shit the Dora Milaje!

    I hear Frank’s argument that events in AGE OF ULTRON and CIVIL WAR robbed Black Panther of essential elements from his origin story that could have served him in his own movie, but those problems don’t really bother me. This one served as a mini origin for Black Panther and now his solo movie can get to the point faster. There is still plenty to explore in his movie, like how his powers work, the ceremonial rites, the geopolitics of Wakanda, etc. He still has two villain candidates in the wings (Zemo and Klau), but I’d be just as happy with them introducing a new villain, like a version of the Man-Ape or Erik Killmonger.

    As for Spider-Man, I’ll try to talk about him in another comment later but I think you guys are too critical of his appearance in the movie because you don’t like the character.

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  4. Well, short of not seeing Spider-Man at all because you hate him, this was probably the best case scenario for you. He had two scenes (not counting the post-credits stinger), the first a nice little meeting with Tony. They explained who Spider-Man is without stealing anything from his origin that belongs in a Spider-Man movie. The same things that Frank argues were taken from T’Challa’s origin weren’t taken from Spider-Man. No mention of Uncle Ben’s murder. No mention of a radioactive spider bite. No explicit “with great power…” line. The writers let the audience figure that shit out because we know, and because those things belong in a Spider-Man movie.

    And we got to see his spectacular powers bounce off of the other characters which added a new energy to the Avengers who often come down to punching and smashing things during fights. He’s not an Avenger and I don’t think they’ll make him an Avenger until he’s of legal age, at least. He appeared not as a team member, but as part of a classic Marvel team-up.

    If you hate him, okay, but you gotta admit if he HAD to be in the movie this was the way to do it.

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  5. Ryan, I had a similar thought about Zemo… Masters of Evil? Or leading us towards a Thunderbolts movie?

    Always fun listening to the guys talk about movies… but if I focus on movies not yet made or even announced… I would love a Secret Wars movie for sure, but when I look at Marvel’s other crossover events, they don’t really rate. But I hated Civil War, and the movie was great. They took just enough to make it an echo, but changed all the bad bits, so that’s not necessarily a problem. Secret Invasion was lame, but the Skrull would be keen in the CMU (if FF ever reverted obviously). Atlantis Attacks would give us Namor… Nope, I can’t come up with cool crossover events from that side of the aisle, probably because I wasn’t a Marvel fan during the densest crossover event era.

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  6. I’m not a big commenter on our boards because I always intend to address this stuff on the show, but by the time I’m done editing a show in isolation and still have to knock out the Mail Bag at 3 in the morning, fuck that noise. Next time the group is together, I’m going to force Mac & Fixit to address this shit. Therefore, Imma comment now.

    I’m cool with the continued shelving of Red Skull. That guy was such an overbearing presence through the Mark Gruenwald run that I kind of hate him a little bit, and like the Joker, no writer can get through their own run without at least one major Skull arc. The dude is a literal Nazi. Unless he’s being used for legitimate commentary on the state of the world 2016, it would be nice to let Nazis as a cultural touchstone die out.

    On the other hand, I am in no way cool with mothballing Baron Zemo, a timeless not-quite-sympathetic, not-antihero-but-maybe antivillain maipulative fascist mastermind behind the greatest anti-Avengers collective, The Motherfucking Masters of Motherfucking Evil. Besides being mostly developed by my fandom-earning Cap creative team of DeMatteis and Zeck, I love that Zemo doesn’t represent any real world holocaust perpetuating ideology– he’s just a bad guy with a massive ego who thinks he should be ruling the world. I can guiltylessly enjoy him indulging his bonafide beef with Captain America & friends while coming up with sweet plots like masquerading as the leader of a “superhero” team or going Dr. Moreau on unwilling subjects with his homeboy Arnim Zola. I love that in the 1980s, someone decided to make a new bad guy who wore predominantly pink and purple with stripes, spotted fur, and yellow highlights with a face that looks like it was molded out of puréed Spam. Zemo is an aristocratic kind of guy who pores out Cristal for his peeps lost in The Terror and lives up to the legacy of his father, the guy who super-glued a little girl’s party dress to his head and killed kid sidekicks with rocket missiles.

    Therefore, what I don’t need is a black ops terrorist of common stock with a sob story about his wife and child drinking dirt whose future crimes would be blood on T’Challa’s hands since the king got in the way of his bullet brunch. In fact, MCU Zemo is very near the exact opposite of comic book Zemo, up to and including his having an effective plan to dismantle the Avengers over the long haul. It bums me out, so I want Zemo to get right at some point and become the kind of villain the Avengers don’t like but need when truer evils like Thanos show up. But first, The Masters of Evil.

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  7. Black Panther has his own super-stealth jet! If only it had a giant jaguar head on the nose cone!

    Spider-Man was a novel extra in a few key scenes. Black Panther is third lead and an essential part of the entire film’s narrative. At the end of the movie, he’s the guy who insures the continued existence of the Avengers we know and love (versus team Tony’s future New Avengers with Captain Marvel and… I dunno, Dr. Strange?)

    Two strikes against Black Panther is an origin story that plays like a Batman Elseworlds and an anemic rogues gallery. If T’Challa needs Zemo more than Cap, and he definitely does, I could roll with that. As of now though, Zemo is still Cap’s property, so it feels like he stepped all over T’Challa’s independence as a character. I figure Klaw is still a lock for the first Panther picture, where he can be a done-in-one while the focus stays on world building in Wakanda. From there, I think filmmakers should just work with original villains or borrow from elsewhere in the Marvel Universe, because I’m going to veto the viability of Killmonger the Proto-Chromium Extremist and the suuuuper racist Man-Ape. Consign them both to the scrap heap with The Yellow Claw.

    And I basically agree with everything Siskoid said, so nothing to add there.

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  8. Excellent show, as always, fellas. Other than Frank’s 5 minute look at Libertarianism thru his Mao Tse-tung-tinted glasses, you guys were on point with your review. Keep up the great work. Y’all are fucking brilliant.
    BTW, I don’t like Spider-man (or Wolverine, for that matter) in my Avengers soup either.

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